Ep. 1: Our why

Jill: We're gonna talk about why we decided to create said podcast. So Shakira, talk to me about why you want to do this podcast.

Shakira: Well, want is a very strong word. (Jill - Fair.) I would say I was bullied into doing this podcast.

Jill: Come on now. I feel like bullying might be strong.

Shakira: But bullied strong. I wasn't bullied. I mean, you know, you make me do a lot of things that I'm uncomfortable doing. You don't make me you suggest them. And then therefore, I feel like it's a challenge. And therefore, I should. And I trust you. I trust you.

Jill: So this seems to me very similarly on how I felt about doing trapeze for your birthday. (Shakira - Wow. Really?) Yeah, we're going way back. No, no resentment, no resentment, like it was a good experience. But it was something that you put on my bucket list that was never there. And I had a good time, but I'm never going to do it again.

Shakira: Okay. Okay, that might turn out to be just like this podcast. (Jill - that's okay.) You know, like, it's fine for now. But then you put something out there. Maybe that's it. Like, you know, maybe we can talk about the fear part. I think you put something out. Okay. Wow, lots of words that I want to add to sort of reel myself in and intentionally speak slower. For my thoughts to catch up to my mouth. I think that a fear I have in doing a podcast is public displays of vulnerability pdv. And you know, the thought of doing something, physically doing something, for external validation, which always sticks out in my head as something to avoid. Because for me, it can become really self destructive, and I can get pretty obsessive. I think that is probably why I have been hesitant. Now I can articulate that I don't think I could articulate before other than just the thought that what I have nothing, you know, a value to share. But since it's not about, I am making it in my head, not about other people, although if there's a service aspect in having a conversation with my friend, then so be it. So I think I'm trying to reframe it a little bit until like, well, let's just talk, let's just have conversation, whereas you are so much more, what's the word? open and willing? Like there's a willingness that you have that I know you're smiling, because you're like, Fuck, no. I disagree, I would say and for me the out from my perspective, you are much more willing to, to take risks and to put yourself out there in a way that I'm just not comfortable. Still doing? I'm not certain aspects, maybe, certain things, maybe. But most generally, not. Most generally not, especially when it comes to vulnerability.

Jill: See and I think that that's where you and I are extremely similar. And I think that this is why we are the soul mates that we are, is because I see exactly in you what you see in me. Right? So like for you, I always see you putting yourself out there, you doing things, being brave and taking risks in areas that, for me aren't things that I'm necessarily thinking that I can do like that I feel confident in doing. So I feel like between the two of us, this is why, you know, I wanted to do this because I feel like we're each other sort of yin and yang, right. We're one of us shines. The other one, you know, can shine with but then we also like kind of complement each other very nicely. And I think, together. We always push each other to be our bests.

Shakira: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think there's a lot of openness to just be who you are. There's always this thing, or at least I remember with a lot of a lot of my friendships. And I, you know, maybe this goes without saying but I think of friendships like in terms of all relationships and how, whether they be romantic or intimate, you can take aspects of each and learn from them. In all of my friendships, I can get a sense of my lack of wanting to be vulnerable. So it was always who that person, whomever they may be, they would want me to be or and I would present myself to be the person that I thought, you know, whomever I'm in relationship with, would want. And even in meeting new people, like in first meeting people,there's always like this, you know

Jill: What mask do I need to wear?

Shakira: Yes, yeah, depends on how thick you know, I want to make the mask, I feel like over time the mask has become, or you don't think of it as a mask. I'm like, making this gesture of like a wall, but the walls become thinner. Where I am stepping closer to it to be able to see through it and for others to then therefore see me. becomes more

Jill: Becomes more transparent.

Shakira: Yes, thank you. That's the word. But you know, for so long, it's been like, hide behind this wall. And then just you know, you know, act it out. Yeah, charades it out with whoever. And even in long, like long, even in our relationship, like I can just talk to you about you and me. And even in our relationship. I feel like I've had you have first of all stick around long enough for me to be able to grow. Thank you for that. Appreciate it, much gratitude, love you. But you've, you would not allow me to just go away, you know, just to push you away? Or, you know, you would never you wouldn't you just wouldn't matter how much I tried to in like, build a wall. You're like, yeah, no, I'm gonna

Jill: stick around. I'm here.

Shakira: I know, I can see you, you can't hide from me. But as that as you know, I've been able to learn from you how to be a friend and how to show up fully, I've learned through you how to show up fully as myself. So there's a lot, there's a lot less like bullshit. Like, we don't do the wall thing. You know what I mean, upon each other. It's really just like, how are you? Well, I this and that. And the thing, you know, it's always bad. But I think it's just real.

Jill: Yeah. And I think that that's kind of, for me, that's exactly why I wanted to do this podcast with you is because we do have that kind of relationship where we are, I want to say unapologetic to each other. Like we allow each other to be in whatever space we're in. I never feel judgment. I never give judgment. And I feel like we hold that space for whatever each person needs. Right. So like, there's been so many times over the, Jesus, how many years that we've been friends? 16 I think I counted the other day. (Shakira - Oh, my God,) I think we're going back to 2006. So that would be 16, almost 17 years. So I feel like, I'll let your your mouth is still open. Just kidding. So I feel like over that time, we've allowed, we've seen each other through so many different areas and aspects of our lives, like we've grown to totally different people since we've met. And we've held each other inthat space of being able to say hey, like I'm here for you. I'm your cheerleader. I'm holding your hair for whatever you need. I'm your support system, like, but we also know in through that time, I guess is where I want it to go is that we can go like weeks without talking to one another. And we just pick up the phone and it's just like, oh, well here we are still in this parallel life. Like I feel like you and I always kind of know, like, if I know that I don't hear from you. I'm like, Okay, I know where she's at. And if you don't hear from me, you're like, oh, yeah, that bit just heightened again, right. Like there's so many similarities, like when you're talking about the transparent wall. Like I feel like, that's usually my same sort of thought of when I'm introducing myself to somebody new but for me, it is literally a shield. Like, yeah, it's a shield until I've gotten to a place where I feel like I can trust you, that you're a safe space for me, to be who I want to be me. Hmm. You know, so I think you and I have so many similarities that I think that this is why not necessarily me not saying you can't, we're gonna be friends forever. But I feel like we just naturally kind of fit. It was never been a question of oh, okay, well, I left that job. So now I'm no longer friends with Shakira, whatever bye, right. Like, I just feel like we instantly connected it was just like oh yeah like this bitch is gonna be my life forever.

Shakira: Yeah, yeah yeah yeah, I have so many thoughts or memories. One, I'm still stuck on the fact that we've known each other for 16 years so if it was 2006 I was, you know 25, 26. 25 for most of that year and 26 for the quarter of it

Jill: We moved to Minneapolis for the job in February of 2007. However, I started that job and I was commuting for a few months I think sent from like November to February. So I met you in November of 2006.

Shakira: Wow. Yeah, I just turned 26 then. Well, there's so many two reactions, one like holy shit. I was 26, which feels like a lifetime ago. Just the the course of events that have taken place between 26 and 42 are like, yeah, a whole last lifetime. I'm most certainly not the same person. I'm also able to forgive myself for being like, 26. Like, now I can look back and I see my sister who is 27. And I'm like, Oh my God. you're such a baby. You're such a baby. I thought I was grown up.

Jill: I still don't feel like I'm grown.

Shakira: Grown, like you could not, I knew what I was and who I was and where I was maybe not know where it was going. But there was a very much a sense of like, Yeah, i got this. And as I've gotten older, the thought I'm most comfortable is I have no idea. That's the thought I'm I'm most comfortable with and like settled into it feels good to have no clue. Which we can talk about a whole bunch as far as surrender and will and all that goes but yeah, I can't believe I can't believe that. Thank God, we are still friends. Thank God. Thank God you still like me! I was a fucking bitch.

Jill: Well, I think we were talking earlier. We were talking earlier about how I was the perfect asshole. So again, this is why we work.

Shakira: Wow. Yeah. Thank you. Whoo. You didn't have to stay you were on in it with that hair. shaved head. Shave. Oh my god. I forgot. Yes. I was bald. Oh my god. That was like almost 10 years of that. Yeah, I met you and I was bald, right on, yeah.

Jill: I was like, this chick is badass.

Shakira: I'm glad you thought so I was a punk. Glad you thought so. I didn't think too highly of myself. And

Jill: nor did I. Nor did I. I did not think highly of myself either. Clearly. Yeah. But that's again, this is this is all the why? Because we've had some really good stories in our life together.

Shakira: Oh, wow. We've lived through a lot. We've lived through a lot. You have certainly lived through a lot with me.

Jill: I moved to Chicago for you. (Shakira - You did not.) I totally did. I totally did. I totally did. I got the job offer. And they were just like, would you move to Chicago? And I'm like, Oh my god. Kira was going through a really tough time right now. And I would love to be by her.

Shakira: Oh my gosh, I'll never forget calling you.

Jill: Oh, it's like 2: 30 in the morning. Do you remember? I totally do.

Shakira: I'll never forget it. I'll never forget it. I feel like that was a moment when it was very clear to you like I need to move to Chicago.

Jill: Honestly, you can ask Jeff that same question because I literally, he's like, what's going on? And I looked at him I go, we need to move to Chicago.

Shakira: I'm gonna cry. I'll never forget it. That was like the second most scariest time of my life.

Jill: Yeah. Yeah.

Shakira: Yeah. Wow. I'll never forget it. I just couldn't even get the words out. I remember it was dark. I remember I was in that second bedroom of that apartment in Rogers Park. I remember looking out the window. I remember just like, oh, the feeling like gives me goosebumps. Because I just remember like, I'm never called anyone that late to say I need help. So first of all, that was, I think the first big hurdle was actually saying to someone, I need help. And also, I have no idea what to do, which was so scary then, because I thought that that was what being an adult meant was like, I know what my next step should be. I had no clue and I was scared, and I didn't think I was gonna make it. And you're the first person, you're the only person I knew to call like you were the only person I knew to call.

Jill: Yeah. And I was in Minneapolis. Yeah. Thank you for calling me.

Shakira: Oh, my God. Thank you for being there. Thank you for moving. And when you left, but I got it. I got it. I'm sad every day. I got it. Yeah, it's the same reason why I thought it would no, I mean, as much as I love Minneapolis, there's no place like home and Illinois was home. I get it. No, no,

Jill: I would still no, well, yes. And I would definitely still be in Chicago. Yeah. Because I think Jeff has more of that sentiment of Yes. Being home, which is fine. I mean, I just knew that this is where we needed to be. But I miss Chicago every single day. Yeah, there's just something about it.

Shakira: I mean, every time I think about leaving, I just don't, I don't for so many reasons, but mainly because it is it's just yeah. I don't know, as far as big cities are concerned. You can't match the cost of living, the people and the culture.

Jill: yeah. And they feel like there's just so much beauty in the most, what's the word I want? Like it's there's just hidden gems all over the place. And like, the details of the buildings like I'm miss walking down my walk, right, down Michigan Avenue to work every day. And yeah, and just the beauty and people I think I've told you this before, to where I just missed the, I don't know, just the eclecticness of people and that anything goes and everybody has their own style that in their own sense of self that they seem to own and it's extremely like give no shit kind of a vibe. Yeah,

Shakira: yes, I think strongly so especially in comparison to Minneapolis, which I love. I think Minneapolis is beautiful. The food knocked me out like I couldn't believe the food was. And it's so green it's green it's clean as fuck like that. Those are the which you know does it smell like pee? That's not a good thing about Chicago.

Jill: that is the one thing that I always say about Chicago is that they do a really great job of hiding their dirt. Hiding their trash like you never you know they do a great job of keeping the parks they do a great job of like putting flowers every place because they don't want you they don't want you look in underneath to see like the trash cans overflowing you know. there isn't it's very clean in Minneapolis

Shakira: yes and I Minnesota as a whole yes yes yes yes, I missed that I do but I can't beat the fact that I can't beat how walkable the city is I can't beat you said the people are uniquely themselves but the only time I felt like a city had a leg up was you know the traveling to New York like that's where I started to feel like oh this is really what it looks like to not give a fuck that vibe I'm I'm super drawn to especially the older I get again like I'm like ,really? You know give any but I just can't get over the cost of living if I could I would absolutely move 100%. If you could tell me you could promise me I would not have a rodent in my home. First and foremost because you know how I feel about mice doing period. I do if you could you promise me I would never ever see him a mouse and you could promise me that I could afford to live there. Yeah, I'll just say a bedroom and a half like I'll even go back to half of current situation. A bedroom and a half a bedroom plus den for under $3,000. Like I would do it but the shit I've been looking at I'm like oh no likeI need, seven grand.

Jill: Well, you wouldn't, but I feel like three. I feel like you could find it. I just don't know if it's going to be where you want to be.

Shakira: Yeah, it's probably like queens, which I hear is lovely as well. I've just never been.

Jill: Right. So I think that that's part of it. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So why this podcast? I think, clearly, because of the conversation that you may have just heard between two really great friends that you can tell we cycle all over the place, this sort of a conversation goes somewhere else undoubtedly, we never know where we're going to end up. But I felt like it was just necessary for us to invite people into the special relationship that we have, and the conversations that we have, because I feel like more often than not, I will walk away from our conversations, feeling something deeper within myself that I didn't prior to having the call with you.

Shakira: Agree. Agree, I'd say. Yeah, totally agree. It's interesting how intimacy and vulnerability the one thing you're afraid of absolutely creates so much more space for love. Then you had before at least that's how I feel.

Jill: Agreed, Agreed. Yeah. So more to come.

Shakira: You're really good at this.

Jill: All right now we that'll be that'll be the end of it.