Ep. 5: A lesson in freedom and acceptance

Jill: Hey girl, hey. How are you?

Shakira: I'm okay. You know, we were chatting before this call. I got some feelings today. It's a heavy one, but before you ask me that. I'll ask you. Mood rating and a couple of words to describe how you're how you're feeling today?

Jill: Sure. I did my homework. I prepped with my feelings chart. Ah, I would say, I'm probably, I'm going with an 80. As far as my mood. Yep. And I'm feeling content. That was the word that felt right for me today.

Shakira: Tell me why. What's going on?

Jill: I would say, I got outside today to walk the dogs that felt really nice. And I got a lot of projects done around the house, like just some odds and ends things that needed to be like, put away and finished. That felt really good. And I trimmed Jeff's beard today. And I haven't, and he's been trying to find a barber because he loved his barber in Chicago. And he's never been able to find anybody since. And so he hasn't come home super pleased, except for when he was in Vegas. And some lady did it and he absolutely loved his experience. And so he was just like, I'm like, well, I can try it. Like, I haven't done beards before, but it can't be that difficult. And then today when you're talking about he goes, Yeah, he goes, the best has been when people have treated it like a hair cut. And I'm like, well, what do you mean? Yeah, he's like, they use the scissors. And I'm like, oh, wait a second. What? Because I thought that I would have to use like my clipper or my clippers with a comb, which is how I would do like a short hair cut on a guy. And so as soon as I brought up the scissors, I was like, Okay, I got this. This is exactly, now I got this. So it was a lot of fun to play around for like, it only took me like 20 minutes. I had to put on my reading glasses, which felt nice to get real close. Make sure to fuck anything up.

Shakira: Yep, I got my man's beard.

Jill: And then my nephew and his girlfriend are coming over today. And I haven't she hasn't been here before him. And if he hasn't been here in a long time, so it will be a fun day.

Shakira: Sweet. I was gonna say Jeff just needs to go to where all the black people are.

Jill: We've tried that. It hasn't been the best experience. It hasn't been his Chicago experience. He loved Richard.

Shakira: Got you. Got you.

Jill: And I think he just more liked the whole camaraderie of that place being the only white guy that ever showed up. And he would just literally just like listen to the banter. He would just wait to drop something. And then let the banter continue. Like he would go for an hour and a half. It took him five minutes to walk there. But he loved it. He absolutely loved it.

Shakira: And he's bald. So or was bald at the time? He was literally going for an hour and a half, just for his beard.

Jill: Well, , Richard would get him in for like 35 minutes because he was still working on the other guy. And then somebody would shine his shoes while he was there. Like it was a one stop shop for him. He loved it.

Shakira: Yeah, yeah. The whole experience the barbershop experience. Glad Jeff had that while he was here. I'm really glad you haven't had the black lady salon experience. I mean, I can't imagine why you would go, there wouldn't be a reason you're not getting box braids.

Jill: I don't feel like that's appropriate. However, if I could go, but I feel like my hair type also with curly hair. It's very difficult to find the right products that work for my hair. But my hair is also thick but fine.

Shakira: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I mean, a lot of the strands themselves are fine. Yeah, but the volume is, yeah. A lot of black people want to say complain, but describe their hair in similar ways. Like my hair is the the it's thick as fuck, but the strands are super fine and brittle. I mean, now it's probably a lot different since I'm growing out locks, which I hit my year anniversary in like two weeks. Isn't that crazy?

Jill: That's insane.

Shakira: Now I'm very, very happy I stuck with it. But also like, what am I going to do?

Jill: I was gonna say, Well, what's next? For the journey?

Shakira: Nothing. Just let them grow. Yeah, first year is like, you know, you're just getting well for me. I can say for my first year. It's been just getting acclimated to the change it self. You know, the way that I care for my hair is a little different. It's a lot more low maintenance. But also, it's not no maintenance. You know, I think that's maybe a misconception. It's the gaining comfort with things, just letting things just do what it's going to do, rather than trying to, for me manipulate it into a certain style. And just like it took me a long time to get comfortable, doing my own natural loose hair, like it's gonna take me some time to feel confident, not comfortable, confident, there's gonna be a little time to get confident with my, my locked hair, because, you know, I'm just not confident it's like, okay, you know, I can't see anything that happened in the back. Am I parting it when I try to palm roll it, you know, myself, is it looking funky? I don't want to use any products because outside of water and a light oil, because I don't want it to build up in my hair as it's locking. And then you get like, weird shit happening. You know, it's a weird drying process, which, you know, you don't want to have like, super wet hair. And then, you know not like, let it dry. And then you get mold if you put a hat on. So it's a lot like that kind of remembering. Yeah, my hair is a different it's a different texture now, so I have to care for it in that way. But the freedom of in the acceptance and the seeing myself as you know, I think I used to think I would not be pretty. Or like, I wouldn't think it was a beautiful look or just not for me. Accepting all of me, especially in a corporate setting. Has been. Yeah, it's freeing. It's really liberating.

Jill: I'm fascinated by that because I feel like there's the the acceptance and the freedom of where you're at with your hair and where your hair is that with you, essentially, right? I feel like there's a ton that is wrapped up into our identities with our hair. Because I have I do not feel like I'm in a space where I'm accepting of my natural hair and just letting it do what it wants to do. Like I want to manipulate it and look a certain way with product because I feel like it needs to look that but I can easily swing from looking like Gilda Radner if I let it go and just get all fuzzy and out of control or an 80s pop star if I really diffuse it and get it super curly. And I'll do that and I'll look in mirror like oh shit yeah a little too big. Let's tame that down a bit. Or manipulate it by straightening it and have a different look if I straighten it

Shakira: oh god yeah, I think the yes story of my life My whole life has been trying to manipulate my hair which then therefore will translate into manipulating myself into something that I think I'm supposed to be again especially for other people or external validation and I think black women have there's so much Oh, identity, I think is the word that you use tied into the care for our hair, but , there's also in my experience, this the identity can be obsessive. To where it is the only thing that defines or one of the most important things that defines who I am and how others may see me. Yeah, I don't feel like I need to contain it anymore. Like there should happen and underneath this this Yeah, right now. Yeah. Yeah. You know, where the roots are in their absolute kinky state. And, you know, the locks are doing their own thing. That, you know, if I was if I'm, you know, I'm in front of a camera one, I'm, I could wear this hat all day. And I pretty much do at work, which is something I would, again be shying away from, because it would make other people feel uncomfortable, or I feel uncomfortable with other people asking me questions about it. Yeah, I don't need to, I don't have to contain myself anymore. Or I don't feel the need to do that.

Jill: I like that. I was actually just having a little texting conversation with a girlfriend of mine that got a new car and she was just talking about how she wanted to only tell people that wouldn't judge her because she didn't want it to seem icky that she got this new vehicle. I was just like, Who gives a fuck what people say. Your a grownass woman buying whatever the fuck you want.

Shakira: Right! Right!

Jill: I feel like it's part of the same conversation of the perception of other people. And what you had said is not wanting to have to have the conversation with other people. And is that? Is that a? What is that? Is that like, I don't want to have the confrontation? I don't, I'm fearful of the outcome of the conversation because there's judgement. Is there something

Shakira: Yeah, I'd say all of the above. I mean, in the else I'm not considering? example of the friend who has the car, who has, you know, some fear maybe around how other people will perceive her. This is interesting. I'm actually surprised that we're going this direction right now. But I guess this is what's happening, so. This isn't what we talked about before.

Jill: We might get there, who knows?

Shakira: Maybe, it's a little deep. So this is interesting. And you'll literally crack either crack up or be like seriously Shakira? Since I have come in to a certain financial position that I never expected to be in, especially growing up, and I'm grateful for, this isn't the same a billionaire. I'm not, I'm not anyone's 1%. But you know, like, clearly, like, where, how I've progressed. I'd say in the last 10 years. What I have found myself doing in regards to intimate relationships, is only allowing myself to be in relationship with people who do not match that energy, and not the energy of not just the energy of who I aspire to be, which is, you know, a confident, calm, peaceful, loving, open hearted person. I mean, the financial energy of where I am, where that is a very important part of, you know, better or worse, what makes me feel secure, regardless of how there is no security in anything in this economy, first and foremost, as well as you now. All that said, I can give you a couple of examples. One of the things so I will, okay, was dating this guy, this was maybe like four years ago, three or four years ago. And I met him on I don't know, an app, and you know, who I'm talking about, because I was super obsessed with them. And we went out maybe like a handful of times. And he was very political.

Jill: Yeah, I remember this guy.

Shakira: You know, activist and writer, and you know, blue collar, at least, you know, not in the sense of like he had working man hands, but like, he worked in the service industry, or nonprofit like that kind of, you know, that's what I mean. Well, I remember being so enamored with the person that I thought he was, and is, you know, to this day, he's running for political office. I'm happy for him. But the first time, so he lived in a certain part of Chicago that I used to live in. And I moved away from because I felt like I was I was ready to move. It had been several years of me being in that same neighborhood, as you know. It was just time for me to like, wash a lot of that clean. Yep. What I then moved to, you know, a fancier part of Chicago and then moved, like, somewhere for me, which is in the middle, right, like, a neighborhood sort of vibe anyway, I'm, you know, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'll get to the point. The point is, is when I met him, I knew that he was by way of him telling me of a certain class, which is, we'll say, lower middle class to poverty, right. That's probably how he would describe himself to me. Exactly. I mean, fuck, you know what it is. And I was so embarrassed to have him come over to my place, because what he would see is that I am one person with a 13 pound dog in a three bedroom, two bathroom condo. Like one, why do I have all that space? Am I worthy of having all that space? How did you afford this? Is this gentrification though? I'm black, and this is a Mexican neighborhood. What are you doing to give back? Like all of these words, all of these things that I was afraid he would judge me as, which is a super privileged, Republican. I thought that it was, you know, I thought I wouldn't be accepted by him. So I am. I'm pretty sure hard. I'm pretty sure I told some lies. Like it took me 1800 years to save up. It didn't take me that long. Like, yeah, because I'm doing all right. But that I guess my point is like, that was one example of how I tried to dim the success and avoid the perception that I'm either bragging or that I'm better than or that I'm no longer like, you know, down for the culture was really, like there's so many inner tangled definitions and insecurities that came up as a result of purchasing this home climbing or getting to a level of success in my career. That, you know, I just I was embarrassed. Sure. I was really embarrassed. Yep. And I've definitely dated, I'd say, below my tax bracket, which again, is fine, but it's the things that I have. It's everything that I wrap around that. Does that make sense?

Jill: Absolutely. And I think that it makes total sense. And there's so much in that conversation, A) yes, the insecurities of how you were feeling. The other thing that I hear in there is that you didn't necessarily feel worthy of your own self and success. So therefore, you had you were concerned with the perception that other people had about you. And I think the biggest thing is, is that like you dimmed your light, right for other people. And what did you sacrifice in that in dimming that light?

Shakira: Mm hmm. I think I'm still figuring that out. But I would say that I wasted a lot of time and energy on on people. Because I was so afraid that had I shown who I was they would leave so this goes sure to a lot of abandonment, yep, sort of issues and childhood traumas.

Jill: You and I have very similar stories, different backgrounds, but very similar stories in that and I think that that's part of you know, why you and I always connect because we have that different entangled story, I guess I would say. But I think that that's the biggest thing that I that I look at and that I'm also in the different ways that I show up is like, where am I shining my light? Where am I dimming my light? And if I'm if I feel like I'm dimming my light, wh? Like what am I feeling in that day? Like, is it just a day? Is this a mood that I've been in for like the last week? How am I showing up in that? And I think as much as I'm always like, your a grownass woman right, like be worthy. Like, it's still a conversation I'm constantly having with myself.

Shakira: Mm hmm. Absolutely, I guess.

Jill: And so I think it's, it's super interesting. I feel like I'm also in that space of, you know, ebb and flow within all of these different words that we just talked about as far as like, Okay, so in transitioning from owning the studio into what's next, As I want to be in the flow of that, like, there's just so much of this that comes up with not like providing in the financial way that I used to provide. And what does that say about me? And what does that mean about me? So just being able to like release that and just allow myself to just be who I am untethered from those insecurities and that worthiness conversation, regardless of what it is that I'm bringing to the table, or not bringing to the table, because, sure, if I want to, if I if I want to have the things that I want, I'm still going to have those things because it's just like, I want those things. And I've earned them, and I don't have to work for them. And to I don't have to , what's the word, like put a value on the work that I do for them. Does that make sense?

Shakira: It does. It really does. As you were move. Yeah, this is a loaded conversation. I think what I'm doing and what I'm thinking about as you were you were speaking I was thinking of how much am I? What is the number that I'm associating my own self value with?

Jill: Right, right. Is that the paycheck? Is that how much you have in the bank is that, you know, because, you know, this person, my friend, takes care of takes care of the family, and her husband has been doing amazing work in his career and been able to afford for them to have all of these things. And same goes for you. I've seen the work and the struggles, the frustration, the passion, the energy, everything that is going into where you are. And it's just like you said last last podcast was you're really fucking good at your job. Absolutely. So don't dim your fucking light.

Shakira: Yeah, yeah. Um, but it's the number associated with it, though. And it's interesting. I'm never really fully able to accept the number that I associate with my level of work until I see someone getting more or twice as much as I am making and think, Well, why not me? Yeah, more or twice as much when I'm making and I don't consider this as you know, my own self righteousness, I'm sure I decide how much to apply to their effort. I think well they don't put in half as much the shit I'm doing or yeah, not nearly as smart as I am, or this fucking guy. And they might not be. And they might not be. But it's not up to me. It's not up to me to assign their value from paycheck perspective. But I guess maybe that's it, it's not up to me. In this context. We're both working for the same company. I can absolutely advocate for myself, if I feel like I'm not being paid my value or my words. But it's, it's all of the emotional, it's the relationship with the money and the financial peace and the things that really, you know, I would love to get to a place where it becomes less important to me. My fear and saying that, though, is that if I say that, that it becomes less important to me, that means I won't have any. And I like money. I like money. Money still feels like it gives me a lot of opportunity to do the things that I would like to do that I never dreamed of doing that I can do, you know, but it's the worship of it that is a sticky sort of spot, because how much is that desire? And you know, frankly, what may become an obsession keep you from doing the things that you truly want to do? How much of that is really a barrier to what is your purpose? And can we have a marriage of both? Does that make sense?

Jill: Absolutely. And I feel like I'm brought back to where we started this conversation, in the freedom that you have felt with accepting, and working with your natural hair as it is now in the locks, and being able to surrender to losing that identity that's tied up in your hair, and just giving yourself that space to just be like, I'm open about this, I'm no longer attaching my identity to what my hair looks like, and what's underneath my cap. Right? So how can you take that same feeling of acceptance and freedom and be able to put it into the money conversation?

Shakira: Beautiful. A beautiful parallel that you just made there, Jill, that is really, really beautiful. It's so much more than hair. It's not just so much more than hair. It's a it's a lesson, I think, for how you can, like you said, be more free and accepting and become closer to what is your higher self. That's how I would describe that.

Jill: Yeah, because you found all of that already. In one part

Shakira: Yeah, yeah. of who you are. And now how does that relate to the money conversation? Because like you said, you still desire it. And you have found freedoms in being able to allow yourself to be who you're meant to be by having said money, right? So in being

Jill: Right, like that. doesn't add up, doesn't add up, right? able to, like release that fear that it's going to go away. As soon as you get comfortable with it? Because you got comfortable with your hair. And now look at all this freedom that it gave you like you surrender to it. And here it is. So it's kind of the same conversation with money as soon as you like you surrender to it. Yeah. And just, you know, like, I've adopted this philosophy and I feel like this has always been my philosophy is that Money always flows to me like a rapid river.

Shakira: Yeah, yeah. You've taught me a lot about how to let go of my tension around money and that I am always going to be capable and I'm not just capable, but I'm going to be taken care of like I don't know how it's always going to come but it always does. And I'm always taken care of.

Jill: And you always have right. The money that you sunk into your place, right? Like that was a devastating time. But now look at where you are. You're sitting six weeks in a San Diego. I want to say VRBO, but I just sounds like a sexually transmitted disease. But here you are. Sitting beachside for six weeks. Right. So It always works out. And you've proven yourself that time and time again like you've from what I can see, you've built up that trust within yourself. Now if you see that or don't see that, that's for you, but yeah, that's what I see.

Shakira: How are you gonna like? Sorry, I'm just thinking, Gilda Radner. Sorry that killed me. What would happen if you did live in the freedom of your own hair? How would that translate?

Jill: I don't know. Good question. Good question. I don't know.

Shakira: Let me ask it another way. What are you afraid of?

Jill: Looking like Gilda Radner?

Shakira: No shade Gilda. Is she still alive?

Jill: No, she's not. RIP, Gilda. And I didn't you know, really watch her on Saturday Night Live. I just know like when she her hair, if you like, she can't brush it out. And it was just bad and frizzy. Yeah. And that's what happens to mine. Like I think it would just get really big and frizzy because I already like it gets various levels of frizzy and curly and it's not in control. Right. So I just want to control my hair. Okay, so it would be out of control. Oh, God. It would look like I don't give a fuck.

Shakira: And what would that mean?

Jill: I want to present myself as though I give a fuck. Yeah. And put together and in control.

Shakira: Yeah, yeah. Keep talking.

Jill: I don't know that I want to. Yeah, yeah. Because I it goes back to approval seeking. And it goes back to probably the reason I responded to the text message for my girlfriend in the way that I did is because it's a message that I needed to hear myself. So there we are. Control.

Shakira: Think about the words you used to like quote and say this I'm saying it tame, use manipulation you said control you know, and you talked a little bit about like the manipulation and control in order to have others perceive you as put together. You're smiling.

Jill: I am smiling. Because you know, I'm also taking notes about this. I'm looking at these words and I'm like so the exact words I just talked to Kira about about dimming my own light. Such a conversation about hair.

Shakira: Yeah, I was just asking you how you were doing?

Jill: Well, that's how I'm doing. Content and in control. I'm content with my manipulation and control. Your manipulating and controlling things very contently right now? Yeah. I don't even know if that works. But yeah. Oh,

Shakira: wait a second. Because you did just tell me all the things that you did today. I don't know if it was during the podcast before. You're like I did this. I did the beard. I got the house together. So you're feeling really like you've got control over some shit today? Yeah, I got shit

Jill: Yeah, I got shit buttoned up. You got shit buttoned up. You were productive. Cause I got a company. I got company coming over.

Shakira: That's right. That's right. That's right. And what do you want the company to feel Jill? What do you want them to say?

Jill: Shit is in order. Oh, yeah, I hear how ridiculous I sound.

Shakira: It's not ridiculous. But I'm like putting it all together. Now I'm really it's not ridiculous. I feel the same way. Especially when people are coming over how much I need to again give the perception that I have it together. And this isn't to say like let your shit get crazy. Because you would never do that anyway. Me on the other hand, it's been done. But it's not to say that but there's again the attachment of if I do all these things, then I will have the acceptance for me. I'm saying this for me. If I do all these things, I will have the acceptance and therefore the love and admiration from the people outside of myself. When really I need to be considering all of what I want to have for myself, which is those things I want to have the love and admiration and consideration and the compassion for myself to just be where I'm at. And that is not where I started this podcast and I have a lot of compassion for being where I was

Jill: No, but in something that you said there, I think, kind of hit a little dinger for me. As much as I said, it was about, hey, I've got company coming over. So these are the things that I want to get done. In you saying thinking about for yourself, what is it that you want for yourself? I want those things for myself. I want a tidy home for myself. I want things picked up for myself, because, you saw what it was like for me, when we were just doing this little remodel project. Like if things are out of order in my home, I feel so much chaos inside. So I do want those things for me. Because they bring me peace. And they calm me down.

Shakira: Yeah. And the fact is, is that you would do those things regardless if someone was coming over.

Jill: Those things were getting done, regardless of somebody coming over here. I mean, they have been, you know, shits been out of order for the last couple of weeks. And I finally I'm just like, No, here's, like, Let's knock this off the list today.

Shakira: Yeah, there's a motivating factor. I get that, that that makes sense. I think for me, I do too much consideration of how other people may perceive my space if it's not in order. And sure for I would be perceived as not being in order, but to your point yesterday, and I had a pretty, like you know, empty day of plans. And I'm finding it a lot better easier for me since being out here to not have a ton of shit on my calendar. Like give myself the space to have unstructured time. However, I have to be careful if I have too much unstructured time I will waste it watching TV and before you know I've missed the day like I've missed the things that actually do feed me spiritually feed me and I ended up talking to a friend we did some reading together. And then I, we were talking about how difficult it is when you have so much unstructured time especially if you're in a mood if you have you know, depression I you know, my history of mental illness and she's got a touch of it as well. Mainly sort of sadness, you know, we can sort of share dark moods. Yep, together are we sure that we're talking about how difficult it is to do the things that we know we need to do that actually do make us feel better. So making my bed, dusting, you know, I'm here and there's sand everywhere and I'm stepping on it you know meal prepping grocery shopping like you know they're the things that absolutely make me feel like my highest self but also like on a day when I have a day like yesterday and there's really not a lot of things that I have to get done at a certain time like I would during the week. I just wanted to sit and watch this Biggest Loser marathon on TV but instead of doing that instead of doing that we started texting each other you know and bookending things. I'm gonna go on and put this laundry the basket I'll report back now may have been 90 minutes you know for me to get your shit in the basket and take but I got it done and all day we were doing that she's you know I'm going to clean my bathroom I'm gonna mop you know the floor. I'm going to get this 30 minute workout in I'm you know, I'm going to fold the laundry that I put in it was a great and we got all I mean we got most of the things that we had not without like listing them like we're going to do this this because I think that can also be overwhelming. But I think it was just the accountability of having someone walk through it and not be embarrassed that I just needed someone to to be there. I just need someone to be there.

Jill: You need someone to hold space for you to be accountable to yourself and to be accountable to them with no judgment.

Shakira: no judgment you do or you don't. But I'm going to book end it with you. And that's been a really powerful practice for hold like you said, hold myself accountable to what I know what are the things that bring me to my higher self. Cleaning my house, like you said, actually makes me feel at peace. I felt so good every time I walked in here and the floor was shining. And there wasn't shit on this dining room table and saying I'm not stepping on sand. My bed was made and the sheets are fresh and sparkling. And you know all of that it felt good.

Jill: Because it for me in when those things happen, like it makes me feel energized in my space, because I've now done things that take care of me and that feel really good. And then I don't have to keep thinking about doing them. Those are they're just done. Right, the mundane things that like you said, just kind of like give you that space to be able to do more things and not have to think about the little things that hold you down.

Shakira: So is the key here between manipulation and control? How is it is the is it that the I'm trying to think of how to how to articulate this and I'm struggling? I don't know if this is a question, but I'm thinking of a couple things. And I'll just sort of whiteboard in my head manipulation and control versus freedom and liberation. Can you find those things those freedoms? Can you find that contentment and a balance between manipulation and control? And is the answer in how it makes you feel? Not in how the perception of others and not in the, with the goal being I have to have a certain perception from others? Absolutely. Is that sort of the question to ask oneself as they're making decisions about how to go about their their life?

Jill: What comes up for me is the question, what's the intention behind this action?

Shakira: Right, so simply put, yes.

Jill: Yeah, that's what I meant. Yeah. And what what does it feel like, right, like, how is this feeling right now? Is this feeling like I'm manipulating something? And if the answer is, yes, no, either way, what's the intention? Like, is my intention to clean these things up because I have company coming over? And I want them to think highly of me? Or is the intention that this has been sitting around for too long, and I need my space now clear for me to feel freedom. For me to feel the peace? Mm hmm. So I think it goes back to feeling and intention.

Shakira: Thank you for bringing it back to something so simple, that feels very much like you know what I would ask before teaching a class a yoga class or what you would ask before teaching a class. What's your intention for, for the class, it's living in a way where you are connected to the intention of the act that you're doing? And does that intention connect me to for me, my highest self. My highest being. That is really lovely.

Jill: That is lovely. I feel like this is a good this is a good spot to end.

Shakira: This is a good spot to end.

Jill: Excellent. Well there you have it. Until next time.